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Underworld & The Future. Suggestions & Improvements!

#1 User is offline   Mikeyy 

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  Posted 04 April 2009 - 12:21 PM

Note from me: Hey guys, sorry this thread does seem rather long but I thought I'd come up with some arguments about what Underworld lacked in and how the new game should be improved. I am not slating Underworld, I loved it but one has to agree with me that it was not perfect!

TOMB RAIDER UNDERWORLD AND THE FUTURE GAME - SUGGESTIONS AND IMPROVEMENTS!

Although Square Enix (like Eidos with the previous games) will have a big influence on Crystal Dynamics in terms of production of the game, they're obviously not going to turn the game into some kind of Asian RPG genre.

I do think the game needs a huge makeover though. Legend and Anniversary for the time were spot on and provided a great basis to work upon for the next-gen consoles. Some TR fans say Underworld was improved, but to be honest it wasn't. The thing that did improve was the visuals -- the environments were great and really detailed which made playing it a lot nicer.

But everything else was the same as the old engine from TRL&TRA. I know some Tomb Raider fans gasp at the thought of it, but TOMB RAIDER IS NOT GOING TO SURVIVE IN THE GAMING INDUSTRY WITHOUT COMBAT. When I say combat, I mean combat which we are seeing in games such as Uncharted and Resident Evil 5. This includes:

  • Cover system! A cover system is simply where you can hide behind an obstacle such as a wall and when it's safe to shoot you can pop up and aim at your target. Here's an example of a cover system in a game and an example of where Underworld could have benefited from one:
Nathan in cover, where the player can wait until it's appropriate to aim at the enemy in the distance:



Here, Lara is on the boat on the first level of Underworld. I couldn't find a big picture, but ultimately I found this a vital place to have cover as there were so many big things to cover next to such as the cargo boxes, instead of having to run straight in and be faced with lots of enemies at once draining your health:



  • Manual Aiming and a better HUD for weapons! What I mean for manual aiming is the kind of aiming that you can do on Underworld if you press the right analogue stick. Instead of automatic aiming with target recticles, manual aiming gives you a much better and accurate experience with combat. Also, if you're up close to an enemy and don't have time to manually aim then you could have the option like on Uncharted to shoot free-hand from the hip to quickly stun an enemy, therefore giving you time to aim properly. Better HUD for weapons simply means that you have an actual meter of how much ammo you have on the screen, which on Underworld you did not. So for example, instead of having guns which have random dots on the corner of the screen, you start off with your pistols and maybe a second weapon and throughout the game you can pick up more ammunition which enemies have dropped, just like in the classic games. HAVING THE OPTION TO GO AND CHOSE MORE WEAPONS FROM THE MENU SCREEN WITH LOTS OF AMMO REMOVES THE CHALLENGE AND SURVIVAL-FEEL TO THE GAME.
Example of manual aiming and a better HUD for weapons on Uncharted:



  • Better AI & Body Part Reactions! A lot of my gaming friends complained to me that the AI (Artificial Intelligence) in Underworld had not changed from TRL&TRA. For example, if you went into manual aim on Underworld (by clicking the right stick) you couldn't for example do a headshot. The enemies on Underworld did not have programmed body parts which react in different ways when shot. For example, in a game like Uncharted or Resident Evil 5 if you shoot an enemy in the head then they will die, simply because in real life this would happen. If you shoot someone in the head on Underworld, because the AI is basic it will stay alive and will probably remain alive if you continued shooting it repeatedly. Other examples of games with good AI would be things like shooting arms, it causes the enemy to fall back slightly or maybe yell out in pain. In Underworld the AI is emotionless, it's like shooting a brick wall.
Example of programmed AI on Fallout 3:





  • Brand new storyline! Crystal Dynamics, for the love of God, let that poor Atlantean Godess die. Natla, Amanda, wipe them out completely. Start a new storyline, whether it be a one-game story or maybe one which spawns a few sequels, it needs to be new. A lot of people were put off by Underworld simply because they had no knowledge of the previous storylines from Legend and Anniversary which can be stupid because they should have played the others, but Crystal could've tried to appeal to new TR players and maybe put a long cinematic at the start to explain TRL&TRA. Some could argue that after the gripping final cutscene of Legend, the story would finally be resolved in Underworld. I, like many others, feel that the storyline ending for Underworld was weak and at times very predictable. To attract new customers, you need a new and fresh storyline. Oh and while you're at it -- maybe you could bring back some classic things which people used to love about Tomb Raider? The mansion: assault course, quad biking, secret rooms, the swimming pool, etc. More involvement with Zip and the gang on the headset? This for me added a great atmosphere to Legend and sadly apart from briefly in 'Beneath the Ashes' it did not appear once in Underworld. There are SO many things Lara could do, why not be creative and encounter her on a new adventure? Nothing is impossible for her, we know this!



  • Better support for the other platforms, in particular the PS3 and PC! Now I know that at the end of the day, Microsoft did nothing wrong with spending some money for exclusive DLC packs. It's good business, which Eidos and Crystal Dynamics are obviously going to love. (Which business wouldn't like to get some extra money?!) But the argument is that a lot of Playstation and PC players felt ignored. Although the DLC packs in my opinion weren't exactly five stars, they would have been fantastic add-ons for the other gamers, which by the way from sales states that the majority of people who bought Underworld bought it for the PS3! A demo for the PS3? A DEMO BEFORE THE GAMES RELEASE CAN HEAVILY INFLUENCE THE NUMBER OF SALES IT GETS AT LAUNCH. So many people I know from the PS3 community simply did not buy Underworld because many other games were coming out at the time and they did not want to risk spending £30 ($60/€35) on a game which they didn't know how it played. Trophies? Because trophies are a fairly new addition to the PS3, many people love to have games with trophies. Having a worker from Eidos post a thread on the official forums stating that they're 'looking into it' is not good enough! It has been over five months since the launch of Underworld, does it really take five months to develop a trophy patch, especially as there was an invidual company who worked on porting the PS3 version of the game?




To conclude, if the Tomb Raider franchise is going to survive alonside the current games in the industry today, improvements like the ones I have mentioned above are vital to gaining success and gaining good feedback from reviewers who are currently saying that games like Uncharted are the 'new Tomb Raider'. Feel free to post anymore suggestions! wink.gif

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#2 User is offline   Xian 

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Posted 11 April 2009 - 12:01 AM

That's a pretty extensive list! =P I think if you were running things at Crystal Dynamics or whoever are making the games now they'd be a lot better!

I was really disappointed with Underworld. I got the PS2 version, not realising it's a cut-down version of the XBOX/PS2/PC version. It was just so short and uneventful compared to the other games. If they kept the same level style (say four different areas/countires with three levels in each), with the new graphics and story, they would be so much better. I wouldn't even expect the combat to be as good as other games. But I am gonna get an XBox eventually and try the game on that.
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#3 User is offline   Mintra 

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Posted 12 April 2009 - 11:27 AM

Wow that's a pretty thorough job you've done. I too was kinda surprised and annoyed they took away weapon pickups (though I haven't seen many people complaining about it) - it's like you can see the guy you just killed has a weapon or some grenades or whatever but you can't get 'em. Whoever decided that was a good idea...? huh.gif
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#4 User is offline   Mikeyy 

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Posted 12 April 2009 - 05:38 PM

Thanks guys!

Mintra, maybe they ran out of time and did it as a quick thing?
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#5 User is offline   Mintra 

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Posted 12 April 2009 - 06:13 PM

QUOTE (Mikeyy @ Apr 12 2009, 06:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Mintra, maybe they ran out of time and did it as a quick thing?

Maybe, but they managed it all right in Legend and AE
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#6 User is offline   Joe_Von_Croy 

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Posted 14 April 2009 - 06:09 PM

I have just bought an Xbox 360, I already played TRU on the wii and enjoyed it but its in another league completly on the 360. The game is so much more bigger (not to mention the graphics). The only problem I came across with the 360 version was that the control of the camera was harder than on the wii, it always seemed to go absolutely barmy!

The list is good mikey. I agree with almost everything you said, well done, it must of taken you a while to write tongue.gif lol.
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#7 User is offline   Raider126 

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Posted 14 April 2009 - 10:26 PM

I agree with you entirely, eccspecially when you mentioned about more interaction with Zip on the headset. I miss the witty banter. sad.gif




Something just occured to me. I know it's abit random, but it's been bugging me. In TRU they mentioned about the Unnamed days, although I don't see how it goes into the storyline. If anyone knows can they email me. I know theres a few people on the forum and I don't know if it will be a spoiler or not. Thank you biggrin.gif
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#8 User is online   Katie 

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Posted 14 April 2009 - 10:57 PM

I haven't read any posts here yet...are there any spoilers I should know about? smile.gif
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#9 User is offline   Mikeyy 

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Posted 14 April 2009 - 11:41 PM

None yet, I'll make sure to do a spoiler thing if there are wink.gif
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#10 User is offline   Naids 

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Posted 15 April 2009 - 05:03 AM

Spot on Mikkey!

I have Underworld on the PS2 as well, and am not impressed. It was just so short and there was no combat what so ever! Enimies were so easy to kill, I didn't even use a secondary weapon to kill them!
Yes, the story line was disappointing, and I hope the start off fresh with TR9. The PS2 version actually has a Previously clip at the start of the game. If so from you post, the next-gen games didn't have one?
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#11 User is offline   Raider126 

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Posted 15 April 2009 - 12:11 PM

QUOTE (Naids @ Apr 15 2009, 06:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Spot on Mikkey!

I have Underworld on the PS2 as well, and am not impressed. It was just so short and there was no combat what so ever! Enimies were so easy to kill, I didn't even use a secondary weapon to kill them!
Yes, the story line was disappointing, and I hope the start off fresh with TR9. The PS2 version actually has a Previously clip at the start of the game. If so from you post, the next-gen games didn't have one?


Yeah it was really short, I think we were promised hours and hours and then because of the deadline it had to be cut.
I used my second weapon in a level because they said I needed to kill a innocent kitty, so I put it to sleep. But yeah, I found there were no really hard fights.
My obsession with the Arthurian myth is quite scary, I blame the BBC show Merlin...Anyway I was hoping to see abit more of the myth and it was kind of like "Wha...Whats going on, wheres King Arthur!"


The previously clip was as an extra, if you loaded up the game it told you that it was on the menu, but you had to leave the game to see it. Which wasn't really a good design.

Underworld is really addictive though, I can't stop playing it.
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#12 User is offline   Mikeyy 

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Posted 15 April 2009 - 05:26 PM

I agree, I loved the storyline of Legend and find Ancient British history interesting such as King Arthur. It's as if they had a completely new game and very loosely linked it to Excalibur. The end of Legend, Lara getting the sword and telling the guys at home to start doing research on Excalibur. What happened to all of that?
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#13 User is offline   Xian 

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Posted 15 April 2009 - 09:05 PM

QUOTE (Katie @ Apr 14 2009, 11:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I haven't read any posts here yet...are there any spoilers I should know about? smile.gif


So you are planning to play it eventually? I was wondering how you'd keep writing stories without ever getting to play this one! tongue.gif
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#14 User is offline   Naids 

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Posted 16 April 2009 - 03:14 AM

QUOTE (Raider126 @ Apr 15 2009, 08:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The previously clip was as an extra, if you loaded up the game it told you that it was on the menu, but you had to leave the game to see it. Which wasn't really a good design.

Underworld is really addictive though, I can't stop playing it.


Hmm that is really wierd
And I agree I can't stop playing TRU as well. It's addictive!
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#15 User is offline   toxid 

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Posted 16 April 2009 - 07:32 PM

I think they should have done the game harder over all. Harder puzzles and more difficult combat is what I'd like to see in the future games. The games graphics were fantastic, beautiful landscapes and all, it's such a waste when it's so short and easy.
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#16 User is offline   Mikeyy 

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Posted 16 April 2009 - 08:37 PM

I agree. Visual wise it was perfect, the odd exception here and there (particularly with enemies) but graphically it was pretty much great.
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#17 User is offline   Matt Freaking Miller :D 

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Posted 16 April 2009 - 10:52 PM

QUOTE (Mikeyy @ Apr 16 2009, 08:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I agree. Visual wise it was perfect, the odd exception here and there (particularly with enemies) but graphically it was pretty much great.


true all the mercs looked the same, there wasnt any variation what so ever. Also although lara and the others character models were good, they were just still far too cartoony, everyone looks too perfect, unlike in games like Uncharted where the chracters developed scratches and perminent dirt on their clothing during the game. Although Lara looks stunning, she still sticks out in the enviorments like a sore thumb, she dosen't look real, sh has no blemishes, no freckles, just plain pale plasticy skin! And her Boobs were way too OTT massive, seeing her in the drysuit in the final cutscene just made me shake my head, seriously they should really just give her normal boobs, I doubt anybody cares about her boobs now anyway. And all that else needs improving is the Cutscene animations (e.g. alisters death was so poorly animated, when he died it was like watching a cartoon character die). They seriously need to pump some more money into this francise, it felt a little cheap.
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#18 User is offline   Mikeyy 

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Posted 16 April 2009 - 11:46 PM

I agree, it did feel cheap. Maybe they had to cut corners?
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#19 User is offline   gamerguy475 

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Posted 23 April 2009 - 02:59 AM

QUOTE (Mikeyy @ Apr 16 2009, 11:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I agree, it did feel cheap. Maybe they had to cut corners?

they cut more corners than a cheating nascar driver.

the combat in the ps2 version was awful. all I did was roll around and shoot things till they died, that's no beter than Tomb raider 1, WHICH IS MORE THAN TEN YEARS OLD.

one thing you missed though was length. WHAT GOOD IS ANY GAME IF IT'S OVER BEFORE I CAN ENJOY IT!! you know why the tomb raider series was sucsessful in the days of core design? well a lot of that was due to the fact that their games were LONG (bar chronicles). Tomb raider 1 had 15 LONG levels and that was their shortest game (again, bar chronicles). seriously you could probably beat both Legend and Underworld all in under one day. That's sad.

Underworld was also lacking in overall fun. about 30% of Underworld is just walking through long.......boring........time wasting...,,,corridors were every wall looks identical. seriously how fun is it watching Lara walk forward? I can understand a little corridors here and their but don't make it an endless journey, I have a lot of better things to do with my time.

I would agree with you on the story. Killing Alistar completly out of blue was unnescesary, and really unwanted. Do you know how sad it is to lose that snarky commenter who helped you out in legend? Really stupid. The plot conclusion was also bad, it basicaly said "your a complete idiot for looking for excalibur, looking for the gauntlets, and looking for the hammer because the happy ending you were gripping for after being interupted by anniversary didn't happen". waste. of. my. time.
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