[Katie]

I've been thinking about the classic TR games and CD's games lately, and I thought, maybe they're just not capable? Legend/AE were good games, but not good TR games. Maybe they're just not capable of producing equivalent levels up to our previous standards?

Take a look at TR3's Antarctica level for example. It's quite complex and has thousands of spots to explore. CD's games are easy to navigate, in fact, there's only ever really one route to take.

What do you think? Think they need to bring in some expert level designers?

[sandra croft]

Yes I agree with you that CD´s levels are too linear, I thought after reading the previews of TRU that they had learned, it sounded like Mexico
was gonna be this huge non linear level but it ended up pretty linear after all so I was rather disappointed with that level. TRIII was to hard
for me at places though so I want something in between.

[Mintra]

Just how hard can it be? It doesn't exactly take a massive amount of game designing skill to do nonlinear play, especially since they've managed the harder stuff like modelling the levels and Lara's movements just fine (even if the controls are crap)

[Mikeyy]

Well nowadays games are from point A to point B. I've noticed that when I buy games on the PS3/360 I can always complete them, yet older games on the PS1/PS2 I sometimes gave up. I guess they have to cut out all the complex stuff and just make the stuff which is in the game the best quality they can before release.

[Katie]

I've played fan levels/games that were far more complex... George Maciver and Horus come to mind straight away. I think they should recruit these two!

[leepaynetombraider]

In my oppion it's all to do with money and how crystal are cheap. shorter levels mean less development cost. we already know they cut costs by not including smoother vid's. Who ever does the level design or anything eles. crystal get final say and they say. STAY CHEAP COSTS

[Mintra]

we already know they cut costs by not including smoother vid's.

Er, we do? How does making more demanding cut scenes and FMVs save money?

[leepaynetombraider]

Its the quality of it that is where they are saving the money.
fmv's were a lot smoother during TR1-AOD. Or have you not noticed the slip

[Mintra]

In the early games, they pre-rendered the FMVs so that they could have video with relatively high graphical quality without putting too many demands on the PC's hardware (and because some of the special effects simply weren't possible on graphics cards of the time). In the more recent ones, they've taken to animating the FMVs as normal 3D scenes, rendered by your graphics card in real-time just like the game. This is far more demanding on the PC and is why some people notice stuttering there. Doing it this way does have some advantages though, which is why I don't think it has anything to do with cost cutting. Sorry for the long reply but hopefully that explains my argument.

[Raider126]

In the early games, they pre-rendered the FMVs so that they could have video with relatively high graphical quality without putting too many demands on the PC's hardware (and because some of the special effects simply weren't possible on graphics cards of the time). In the more recent ones, they've taken to animating the FMVs as normal 3D scenes, rendered by your graphics card in real-time just like the game. This is far more demanding on the PC and is why some people notice stuttering there. Doing it this way does have some advantages though, which is why I don't think it has anything to do with cost cutting. Sorry for the long reply but hopefully that explains my argument.

I didn't know that! Thanks for posting Mintra

[Katie]

So it's good for people who have the latest and greatest PC's, but will make for a rough go for those who just meet the requirements. Hard to say if I like it or not!

[TonyTheTiger]

The newer games do look nice, but I do NOT like the new controls. I did not buy Legend or Underworld, but only Anniversary. I did watch a lot of Underworld on youtube to see how it is. How about having a game with a LOT to play like AOD or Revelation?

[Matt Freaking Miller :D]

In the early games, they pre-rendered the FMVs so that they could have video with relatively high graphical quality without putting too many demands on the PC's hardware (and because some of the special effects simply weren't possible on graphics cards of the time). In the more recent ones, they've taken to animating the FMVs as normal 3D scenes, rendered by your graphics card in real-time just like the game. This is far more demanding on the PC and is why some people notice stuttering there. Doing it this way does have some advantages though, which is why I don't think it has anything to do with cost cutting. Sorry for the long reply but hopefully that explains my argument.

Personally I think the cutscenes should be prerendered like RE5. It allows developers to add in effects that the game engine can't by editing. Uncharted did this wonderfully, and whilst the prerender is playing the game can load behind!

[CS]

Sorry to bump an old topic but I disagree with the idea of the thread and wanted to share my opinions on it.

Gaming has changed in the past 10 years and an open world like we saw in Tomb Raider 3 or Last Revelation is unthinkable. A game like that might please hardcore Tomb Raider fans but would not appeal to a large audience.

I thought Underworld was much more open than Legend and I praise Crystal Dynamics for taking the risk. Adventure games are a dying breed - the vast majority of successful games nowadays are action-driven First Person Shooters, hack n slashers, or Wii-type party games.

I'm not saying Underworld was a perfect game - there were some major engine problems and control/camera problems, but in terms of direction I thought Crystal Dynamics nailed it.

I have complete faith in the company sticking with Tomb Raider, and I still completely back Eidos's decision to take the franchise away from Core.

[Katie]

The newer games do look nice, but I do NOT like the new controls. I did not buy Legend or Underworld, but only Anniversary. I did watch a lot of Underworld on youtube to see how it is. How about having a game with a LOT to play like AOD or Revelation?

Those styles of games would be perfect with the new graphics - they really need to get rid of those invisible walls. I feel so constricted playing because you really can't explore everywhere you want to. In older TR games you could, and even though they seldom went anywhere, it was still fun to explore!

Gaming has changed in the past 10 years and an open world like we saw in Tomb Raider 3 or Last Revelation is unthinkable. A game like that might please hardcore Tomb Raider fans but would not appeal to a large audience.

I thought Underworld was much more open than Legend and I praise Crystal Dynamics for taking the risk. Adventure games are a dying breed - the vast majority of successful games nowadays are action-driven First Person Shooters, hack n slashers, or Wii-type party games.

You say that an open world like the classics would be unthinkable, but then you say Underworld was much more open than Legend - in a positive way. Please explain...

[traider]

Those styles of games would be perfect with the new graphics - they really need to get rid of those invisible walls. I feel so constricted playing because you really can't explore everywhere you want to. In older TR games you could, and even though they seldom went anywhere, it was still fun to explore!




You say that an open world like the classics would be unthinkable, but then you say Underworld was much more open than Legend - in a positive way. Please explain...

Yeah - it's not impossible if you try

[Matt Freaking Miller :D]

Yeah - it's not impossible if you try

Why don't they try then? LOL

[traider]

Why don't they try then? LOL

Cos they're CD

[TombRaiderGuy16]

If people doubt crystal dynamics design talent they should look at the japan level in tomb raider legend, the sights and the lights of the buildings was amazing and i personally think that Legend was an excellent game with picturesque sights that felt so real, however the levels on anniversary just show the same basically each level which bored me so maybe crystal dynamics dont know how to make a tomb based game fresh in each level, so katie you are right in a way.

[Joe_Von_Croy]

But one things for sure. Crystal dynamics would never put a hidden T-Rex in their game. That still scares the hell outta me!